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@Papermouth thanks for the heads up but I am still lost to to where exactly is the tonto end. So I am assuming from the Cholla boat ramp up towards the west of it is consider the Tonto end and everything south toward Grapevine is the salt end? Sorry for being a hassle and I was wondering is there a general map of Rosy that can be pointed out to where the Tonto creek is or is it up north by Indian Point? Thanks again